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 ************
Topic 9         Mon Jul 13, 1992
GREG                         at 01:35 EDT
Sub: KODAK Photo CD Access System

To quote Colour Magazine, "In our opinion there are two requirements for the
ultimate success of desk-top color. The ability to capture ... in high
resolution and full color fidelity and "to get such an image captured at a low
cost."
204 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 1         Wed Jul 21, 1993
GREG                         at 01:13 EDT

I just uploaded a photo to the libraries here showing the extent of the
flooding here in Missouri. The photo was converted from Photo CD to 256 color
GIF to keep the download small. Still looks good.

It's hard to believe, but the river actual rose 4 additional feet in the past
7 days since the photo was taken.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 2         Fri Jul 23, 1993
GREG                         at 00:05 EDT

We will be shipping the first Photo CD application for the Atari Falcon series
of computers starting Monday, July 26.

Photo Show for the Falcon makes use of the built in true color graphics, built
in SCSI-2 port, and built-in CD quality sound recording  and playback
capabilities of the Atari Falcon.

Graphics can be viewed directly from the Kodak Photo CD disc or scripted into
custom slide shows that allow you to mix graphics and sound into a multimedia
presentation. Presentations can be played in a continuous loop.

Three professional quality sound loops are included with the program to get
you started.

Presentations can be recorded to VCR without additional cards. All you  need
is a RCA type cable. Shows can be viewed on RGB, VGA, or broadcast monitors
with the outputs built into the basic Atari Falcon.

The export module included with Photo Show will allow the exporting of true-
color images in 24 bit TIF, 24 bit EPS, 24 bit RGB data, or 16 bit RGB data.

A SCSI-2 MultiTOS CD rom driver is included with Photo Show. The driver can
read both Photo CD's XA format and standard 9660 CD rom discs.

Photo Show retails for $35.00. Ask at your favorite dealer.

For more information write It's All Relative, 2233 Keeven Lane, Florissant MO
63031.

Voice: (314) 831-9482 GEnie / Delphi: GREG CIS: 70357,2312

Randall Kopchak It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 3         Fri Jul 23, 1993
GREG                         at 02:26 EDT

SKWare One produces SEURAT VERSION 2.8.  Runs in ST/STe resolutions on all
Atari's: ST/MegaST/STe/MegaSTe/TT030/Falcon030-compatible.

SEURAT is the Atari graphics program that pioneered any-sized virtual- screen
buffers for multiple images in B&W and COLOR, offering the same powerful
functions for COLOR IMAGES that you expect to find only in top mono programs.
Supports 16 file formats. New BitCamera enlarges, reduces and re-proportions
images.  New Clip and Page functions: Rotate, Flip, Invert, Crop, Cut, Paste,
Overlay, Copy using whole images of any size, permitting multiple horizontal
and vertical image-merging that no merge program can. SCANNER Support! Loads
PageStream Fonts (& Degas, GDOS fonts).

SEURAT has been and will remain the most full-featured Atari Art program with
more than 400 functions. EVERY purchaser of SEURAT V2.8 is guaranteed free
upgrade to SEURAT V3.0, for all resolutions and video modes on all Atari's,
including Falcon 256-color & TrueColor modes. Price $59.95.

NOTE: SEURAT V3.0 will support the TrueColor export file formats of Photo Show
by It's All Relative, giving you the power to edit and rework your Kodak Photo
CD images!

SKWare One also produces COLORSCAN, which converts mono scanned images in- to
color pictures (in ten formats). Runs on all Ataris (Falcon-compatible).
COLORSCAN II for 256-color video modes is in final development now. Free
Upgrade guarantee with purchase of Colorscan I. Price $59.95.

                 Check, money order, MC/VISA accepted. SKWare One * P. O. Box
277 * Bunker Hill, Illinois 62014-0277 USA

There is a topic in this category for an ongoing discussion of Seurat.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 4         Fri Jul 23, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 20:17 EDT

  Well that sounds reasonable. I will soon, (hopefully) have a Falcon and I
hate putting pictures in photo albums so I'll probably set that up. I guess I
would need a CD-ROM drive. Does it have to be something special or could I
just look through computer shopper? How many photos can you fit on one CD and
what does it cost to have them made up?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 5         Sat Jul 24, 1993
GREG                         at 00:37 EDT

O-ZONE:

You can fit 100-150 photos on one Kodak Photo CD disc. The cost is around
$20.00 for a 24 exposure roll, a little more if you order a  set a prints to
go with it too.

We are using a NEC-38 drive. I have been told the Toshiba drives also will
work.

Perhaps we can publish a list of drives that work with the falcon and the
MultiTOS drivers.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 6         Sat Jul 24, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 02:58 EDT

Will it run on the TT?

Al

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 7         Sat Jul 24, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 11:36 EDT

Greg,

  Is it possible to play audio CDs on that drive and send the output to the
stereo out on the Falcon?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 8         Sat Jul 24, 1993
GREG                         at 23:55 EDT

A.FASOLDT:

The conversion module that comes with Photo Show will allow the conversion of
Photo CD graphics to 24 bit TIF, EPS, or RAW data on the TT or ST, STe, or
Mega series.

The Photo show module for viewing does require the true-color capabilities of
the Falcon. The CD rom driver that comes with Photo Show will work on the
Falcon or TT.

I believe ICD will or does have drivers available for the ST, STe, and Mega
series. You may want to check out the ICD area here on GEnie.

O-ZONE:

I haven't tried playing a regular music disc with the Falcon yet.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 9         Sun Jul 25, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 04:25 EDT

Thanks, Greg.

Al

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 11        Thu Jul 29, 1993
GREG                         at 00:29 EDT

We will be at the MIST show this weekend in Indianapolis with Photo Show for
the Falcon 030.

Stop by and see a real live CD rom drive showing real live Kodak Photo CD
images in true color accompanied by CD quality sound.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 12        Tue Aug 03, 1993
GREG                         at 00:19 EDT

Photo Show Tips:

Make sure the drive letter you select for your CD rom drive is not one of the
devices used by MultiTOS.

Selecting "Install Devices" from the desktop will install an icon for your
Photo CD drive, any other drive not already installed on your desktop, and the
MultiTOS virtual device.

Enable memory protection from the MultiTOS CPX.

Photo Show has now been tested with the NEC-38 CD rom drive.

Photo Show has now been tested with the Toshiba 3401 drive.

If you are using a different CD rom drive with Photo Show, please leave us E-
mail with your results.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 14        Wed Aug 11, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:39 EDT

Greetings,

        Is there any chance that the "It's all relative" Photo CD software
would work with an old Atari CDAR-504 CD ROM drive ?

        I understand that with a MegaSTE I could only convert the images and
not view them directly.

        I have MultiTOS and have found that the old MetaDOS drivers do work
with it (v1.6 of MetaDOS anyway).  As I understand it, the MultiTOS CD-ROM
drivers would replace MetaDOS, for a full SCSI CD-ROM drive and I guess we'd
have to see whether or not they liked the CDAR-504.  Since there aren't a lot
of CDAR-504's out there and there won't be any more, no one seems to know if
the MultiTOS drivers work with it or not.

        The drivers I have seem to work okay with High Sierra format, but for
IBM's version of ISO 9660 it runs a little slow.  I can copy files off to hard
disk, but I can't view pictures or play .MOD files direct from the CD-ROM.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 15        Sat Aug 14, 1993
GREG                         at 11:40 EDT

L.W.BENJAMIN:

You may want to check in the ICD Forum here on GEnie if the MetaDOS drivers
support Photo CD with the CDAR-504 drives.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 16        Sun Aug 15, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 09:02 EDT

Greg,

        From what I've seen in the past I doubt ICD would want anything at all
to do with MetaDOS and the CDAR-504.  I'll just have to wait until I can get a
_real_ CD-ROM drive before I can make use of Photo CD.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 18        Mon Aug 16, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 18:19 EDT

Greg,

        Any chance of User's Groups being able to purchase a videotape showing
off Photo Show for our users ?

 Take Care,
 Lee B.
 Middle Georgial Atari User's Group (MGAUG) Newsletter Editor

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 19        Mon Aug 16, 1993
GREG                         at 23:35 EDT

In the next couple of weeks I'll do a video demo to send out. As soon as it is
ready, I'll leave you e-mail to get the address to send it to.

The demo at HACE will be an example of the audio and video capabilities of
Photo Show in a loop. I think for a user group meeting, something  with a
beginning, middle and end would be more useful.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 20        Tue Aug 17, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 21:52 EDT

Greg,

        That sounds great!  I'll look forward to your announcement.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 21        Wed Aug 18, 1993
J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey]     at 22:42 EDT

  GREG

Sub: KODAK Photo CD Access System

What WORM drives will work with PCD?  I would like to look at the possibility
of adding naration to the Photo Disk itself, like is on Kodak's demo disk.
They were willing to tell me that the sound is in AISF format, but did not
seem comfortable with admitting that the end user might be able to write to
data the disk.

                                John L.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 22        Thu Aug 19, 1993
GREG                         at 22:46 EDT

J.BATTEY1:

Kodak is VERY proprietary and secret about their formats. There are CD rom
writers, but I haven't seen one yet for the Atari line. Using Photo CD does
require a license from Kodak. In fact, right now, if you take a one-of for
duplication, most duplicators won't touch it unless you have a license for the
technology.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 23        Sun Aug 22, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 10:51 EDT

From what I recall Nimbus Information systems is ready to perform Kodak Photo
CD duplications.  They have all the legal issues worked out.  For details call
(804)-985-1100
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 24        Sun Aug 22, 1993
GREG                         at 21:19 EDT

AEO.1:

Corel has announced a series of Photo CD clip art. Their series of clipart
in PCD format will work with our Photo Show program on the Falcon. I believe
there will be 50 discs in the first release, each disc with 100 photos with
related theme.

ALL:

Did anyone see our Photo Show tape at the HACE show this weekend?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 25        Tue Aug 24, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 01:46 EDT

Greg,

50 discs ... what price are they asking for all of them?  Is it in the low
$500 range?

-- Albert
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 26        Tue Aug 24, 1993
GREG                         at 22:58 EDT

I believe the suggested retail for the Corel is $49.95 per disc and they can
be viewed or converted with Photo Show for the Falcon.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 27        Wed Aug 25, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 03:44 EDT

Greg,

What are the interactive and portfolio Photo CD extensions used for?

Gene
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 28        Wed Aug 25, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 10:39 EDT

Portfolio allows the mixing of audio and pictures on a Photo CD. Using ADPCM
sound not red-book.  I'm sure Greg's program  probably has most of the
portfolio format already.

I went into more detail on the portfolio format in my article on CD-ROM
technology in AEO #201 (its about 60K article) and its in the library.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 29        Wed Aug 25, 1993
GREG                         at 23:01 EDT

 GENE:

 The following is information on the various current and future formats
 for Photo CD from a Kodak press release....

Disc Formats

Kodak has applied the core technology of its Kodak Photo CD system to a
variety of disc formats for specialized applications.  Any disc carrying  the
Photo CD logo, including a mass-replicated disc made by a licensed
manufacturer, can be played on a Photo CD player, a Philips CD-I player,  or,
with appropriate software, a compatible CD-ROM drive.

Kodak Photo CD Master

Designed for 35 mm consumer photography, the original Kodak Photo CD  Master
disc can hold about 100 high-resolution images, or four 24- exposure rolls of
film.  The discs offer image resolution as high as  2048 x 3072 pixels-16
times as great as today's TV standards, and four  times the standards
currently being considered for HDTV.  The Kodak  Photo CD Master disc can also
function as a "digital negative," which  means consumers can take the disc to
a photofinisher to have prints  made.

Kodak Pro Photo CD Master

Professional photographers use the Kodak Pro Photo CD Master disc.   These
discs store images from the larger film formats favored by  professionals,
including 120, 70 mm, and 4 x 5-inch, as well as 35 mm.   Depending on the
film format, the discs can hold from 25 to 100 images.

Kodak Photo CD Portfolio

Designed to become a major publishing medium, the Kodak Photo CD  Portfolio
disc lets people create discs that contain combinations of  photographic
images, stereo audio, graphics, text, and programmed  access.  Applications
include publishing of consumer "picture stories"  (such as wedding discs or
family trees), business presentations, or  commercial titles.  Image
professionals also will use the format to make  custom Photo CD discs with
copied or edited Photo CD images.  Because  the highest resolutions are not
required on this format, users have more  space available for other content,
such as audio and graphics.

Kodak Photo CD Catalog  The Kodak Photo CD Catalog format is designed for
organizations that  want to store large numbers of images on a disc and
distribute these   images widely-such as mail-order retailers, tourism
associations, or art   galleries.  As many as 6,000 images can be stored at
video resolution on  Kodak Photo CD Catalog discs for soft display on TV sets
or computer  monitors.  (The images are of lower resolution than standard
Kodak Photo  CD Master discs or Kodak Pro Photo CD Master discs and can't be
used to  make photo-quality prints.)

 MY FOOTNOTE: When you take film in for Photo CD processing, the disc you get
back is in Kodak Photo CD Master format.

It's All Relative
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 30        Thu Aug 26, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 03:18 EDT

Greg,

Thank you for posting that comprehensive description of the various formats.

How does one go about producing a Kodak Photo CD Portfolio disc?  How does the
audio portion get on there?

Gene
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 31        Thu Aug 26, 1993
POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC]      at 09:06 EDT

This is great information Greg. Thanks for posting.

Nathan @ DMC
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 32        Thu Aug 26, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 10:48 EDT

Greg,

There is also another PRO format that is 24,000 by 16,000 in size. It was
announced at one those photo research shows.

Gene,

To make a portfolio disc you need Kodak's special authoring software that is
supposed to come out late summer or early fall to the last reports I've seen.
The audio is ADPCM which is part of CD-ROM-XA standard.  The audio allows for
compression which red book doesn't.

In general to have a complete Photo CD you need a Kodak's $100,000
workstation.  It includes a film scanner, thermal printer and a  SUN UNIX
workstation, Phillips CD-ROM writer with special Kodak roms that allow for
serialization and other things.  Then the media itself is around $50 or so.
The time it takes to write one to WO media is about 30 minutes sinces its a 2X
times normal speed device (Philips). Not only can you create Photo CDs but you
can create normal CD-ROMs as well (ISO-9660 but not Rock Ridge).  Audio would
require different software.  I don't know how much UNIX CD-Audio software
costs but like most UNIX software its very high compared to the equivalent PC
stuff.

I've seen ads in different magazines where you can buy a Philips writer with
software (pre-mastering and for making a WO) for around $6000.   Which isn't
very high at all if you do make CD-ROMs quite frequently. As Scott Brownstein
(formily of Kodak and now at AGM) likes to call it the 600 megabyte floppy.
<grin>

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 33        Thu Aug 26, 1993
GREG                         at 20:45 EDT

GENE:

The authoring software for Portfolio format will be available first for Sun
workstations. Cost could be high as the scanner/writer and software for the
Master format is over $100,000 now.

With cheaper write drives becoming more common, a home based non-commercial
Portfolio maker could be a reality in a couple of  years. Till then, there
will be services popping up that will do the mastering and sound for you.

If your interested in mass producing, I can put you in touch with people who
can get you off to a good start. Leave me E-mail.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 34        Fri Aug 27, 1993
MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp]        at 00:19 EDT

Greg,

Will Kodak place existing 35mm slides on a Photo CD Master?  How much?

My dad has hundreds of 35mm slides from WWII and they are starting to
discolor.  I would love to get them on a Photo CD before they are lost
forever.

        Mike Allen


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 35        Fri Aug 27, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 01:29 EDT

Greg,

Thanx for the response.  Based on your information and other industry events I
have observed, I will be buying more stock in Atari Corp. :^)

Gene


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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 36        Fri Aug 27, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 19:35 EDT

Al,

        I've heard of ISO-9660 (including an IBM variant) and High Sierra, but
not Rock Ridge.  What's Rock Ridge format ?  Is that the format that SUN uses
?

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 37        Sat Aug 28, 1993
GREG                         at 00:51 EDT

MIKE-ALLEN:

Kodak will do 35mm slides to Photo CD. Just send your slides into the
processor for Photo CD conversion. Make sure you have them in the order you
want them written to the disc in.

We had some slides done a couple of weeks ago and they turned out great. When
I was going through our older slides, I was surprised that some had already
started fading.

GENE:

We bought some ATC stock before it started the jump. It's around 4 now and
still should have room for a 25% jump in the near future IMHO. Beats 2% at the
bank.

L.W.BENJAMIN:

AEO.1 did an article on CD rom formats that is in the libraries here. Perhaps
he will be kind enough to post the file number here.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 38        Sat Aug 28, 1993
M.DRYSDALE [Drys]            at 07:12 EDT

Mike Allen,

 Yes you can put 35mm slides on a Photo CD.  In fact any 35mm media can be
transferred to P-CD.  Shop around, some stores will discount the price. Cost
is between $0.40 to $0.70 each.  Kodak had a rep hosting a Cat in the MAC RT.
Lots of questions like this were answered there.

Mike, GenTech and POWER Computers
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 39        Sat Aug 28, 1993
AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?]       at 08:13 EDT

AEO_0201.LZH is in the libraries as file # 27193. Albert's article is
certainly worth the time to read.

--Travis
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 40        Sun Aug 29, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 00:23 EDT

Greg,

Thanks for the plug.  Photo CD has been one of the most exciting things in
computing in a long time.  Glad we have your program on the Atari!

Lee B.

Rock Ridge is an extension to ISO-9660.  I have the complete spec for Rock
Ridge which is freely distributable in you want a copy.  I should just upload
it to the library.  A Rock Ridge disk is downwardly compatible as well.
Basically its an ISO-9660 but the directory entries/filenames have a special
field called system use field.  This field can contain anything you want it
to.  The Rock Ridge specification allows for all the nice things about the
UNIX filesystem (deep directories (TOS/MS-DOS limit it to 8 levels), 255
character long filenames, permission bits (9 on most Unix systems) and more.
Rock Ridge is not limited to Unix but its the most common purpose today.  Its
a freely distributed specification which is nice.

In the past UNIX filesytems on CD-ROM were just image dumps of the  hard disk.
With Rock Ridge extensions any UNIX system can read any CD-ROM since its first
ISO-9660 compliant and second Rock Ridge.  On a system without a Rock Ridge
driver like Atari and MS-DOS and Apple the disc appears just like a normal ISO-
9660.  Its still there but not not accessed.  You can think of this as normal
software.  If its ported without taking advantage of any of the hardware (like
the Atari Falcon) its just like ISO-9660 if it does take advantage of the
Falcon hardware its like Rock Ridge.

Sun was the first Unix system to have the Rock Ridge driver written for it.
Its since been added to many different UNIX workstations as a standard feature
(ie IBM RS-6000, DG AViiON, DEC 3100, SUN, etc ).

Travis,

Thanks for the file number for AEO_0201.LZH

-- Albert
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 41        Sun Aug 29, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 09:36 EDT

Albert,

        Thanks for the information on Rock Ridge.  Were the SUN "catalog"
disks (I forget what they're really called) done as "disk dumps" ?  I have a
few of them and I cannot read them at all.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 42        Sun Aug 29, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 11:56 EDT

Lee B.,

If you can't read the disc it is a hard disk dump.  Sectors are 512 bytes
each,  and you would need some information on how the Sun boot block  works as
well as transversing the filesystem.  Its fun with all of the inodes schemes,
etc.  If you like to read more on the subject. A good book is File Structures,
2nd edition, authors Zoellick & Folk, publisher: Addison-Wesley, ISBN 0-201-
55713-4.  Its probably one of best books on the subject that I've seen.  It
was recommended to me by Paul Hershensen at Hybrid Arts.  The ADAP II
filesystem is very similar to UNIX filesystem by the way.

The book highlights include: Discussion of a "toolkit" approach to retrieve
file records: simple indexes, paged indexes(e.g. B-trees), variations on paged
indexes (e.g. B+ tress, B* trees) and hashing.

Inlcudes a chapeter on extendible hashing.  Uses pseudocode extensively,
particularlly where the prodecures are complex and where it is important to
avoid the distractions inherent in actual compiable code.

Emphasizes the biulding of conceptual tools for the design and \retrevial of
informatiuon from files.

Provides completed examples in both ANSI C (yea C!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and Turbo
Pascal 6.x (there are a few Turbo Pascal compatible compilers for the Atari as
well).

Introduces UNIX concepts and utilities that apply directly to file structures
and file management.

File structures, 2nd edition: is an invaluable resource (YES,  absolutely!!!)
for computer science professionals using file and data structures in a UNIX
environment (or any environment ... including the Atari).  It will also be of
interest to professionals interested in learning about the design of file
structures and the retrieval of  records.  Students majoing in computer
science will benefit from this book's  book's emphasis on fundemental concepts
and its inclusions of C (yea!!!) and UNIX.

About the authors:

Bill Zoellick is VP and Chief Scientist at the Avalance Development company in
Colorado, a leading producer of text conversion software. Previously he was
the director of technology for Alexandria Institute, a non-profit organization
working to resolve the problems associated with electronic publishing.  He is
a frequent lecturer and writer on CD-ROM issues (the book also includes about
20 pages on making a CD-ROM filesystem)

Michael J. Folk - is currently a Senior Software Engineer at the  National
Center for Supercomputing applications at the University of Illinois in
Urbana.  For the last three years he has been responsible for developing
general purpose scientific data file formats.  Prior to this, Dr. Folk was a
Professor of Computer Science for 15 years at Oklahoma and Drake Universities.

That is a short overview of the book's highlights with most coming from the
back of the book.

It seems like everyone I have talked to about filesystems at work, Compuserve
and Internet always have this book in their list of top 3 on filesystems/file
structures.

Hope that helps.

-- Albert
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 43        Tue Aug 31, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 05:35 EDT

Albert,

        It sounds like someone could write a "module" for MultiTOS for this
type of CD-ROM, if there were enough demand.  Since I don't currently use SUNs
at work (anymore) and the disks didn't cost me anything, it's not worth my
trouble.  Thanks for the great book review thought.  Sounds like a good item
for the AEO Programmer's Journal.  <grin>.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 44        Tue Aug 31, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 11:08 EDT

Lee,

Speaking of Rock Ridge ... July 1993 issue of Dr. Dobbs Journal had some
example C source code that read Rock Ridge disks.  So its already been done.
All one has to do is modify the appropriate drivers.  Its all in C so it
should be easy to port to the Atari.

If you have any more comments on AEO-PJ.  Feel free to send e-mail or post in
(CAT #15, TOPIC #20).  We welcome all feedback!!

It somewhat strange the Kodak's photo CD software/CD-ROM software doesn't
format Rock Ridge compatible disks.  It seems like it would be a standard
since it is running on a SUN SPARCstation.  But I suppose it would be another
additional cost to add to the $100K price.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 45        Tue Aug 31, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 21:16 EDT

I found the information about Kodak Photo CD Portfolio provided by Greg and
Albert highly illuminating, and the information in AEO_0201 even more so.
Perhaps comparing Photo CD Portfolio with CD-R will portend the future for
owners of the Falcon030.

CD-R (CD Recordable) is the name given to the hardware/software used to record
CD-ROMs one at a time.  There are 4 or 5 manufacturers producing systems for
this purpose, which range in price from $9,000 to $18,000.  The recordable CD
media (blank discs) cost about $30. The reason these systems are so expensive
is because it is new technology and tremendous R&D costs must be absorbed by a
very small industrial market.

The technique for recording a standard ISO 9660 format CD-ROM disc is fairly
straight forward.  Basically, you just organize the files on a hard disk in
the same sequence you want them on the CD-ROM.  The authoring software creates
the directory used on the CD-ROM.  Once this "premastered" image has been
created on the hard disc, it is then transferred continuously and in real time
to the CD-ROM writer drive which burns the data into the CD-ROM disc blank.
The disc writing process takes about 1 hour when recording at single speed,
and 1/2 hour if the disc writer has double speed capability.  These times
assume the full 650mb capacity of the CD-ROM disc will be used.

There is nothing super special about a CD-ROM writer which would make it
expensive.  The laser diode is more powerful than a CD-ROM reader, and the
prisms and mirrors are layed out differently allowing it to both read and
write - and it needs different firmware to handle the writing instructions.
The point is, if these were produced in mass quantities the cost would be in
the same ballpark as a standard CD-ROM reader.  I liken it to the cost of
adding stereo hi-fi capability to a standard VHS VCR.

The CD-R systems currently being marketed all include a large, fast hard disc
in the same console with CD-ROM writer.  Because the premastered image must be
recorded without interruption to the CD-ROM, and because the capacity of the
CD-ROM is 650mb, this necessitates a hard drive with at least that much
capacity.  These commercial systems include a 1 or 1.2 gigabyte hard drive in
the console, which contributes to the lofty price.

The significance of Photo CD is that this extension of ISO 9660 has
multisession recording capability.  Simply put, this eliminates the need for a
giant, expensive hard disc.  There is no need to record the whole disc
continuously;  the capacity can be filled with small chunks of material over a
period of time.

Photo CD Portfolio uses ADPCM audio, which is a digital sound format where the
signal is compressed and interleaved with visual data.  The term "XA
compliant" when used in relation to a CD-ROM player means the device can
decompress and read the interleaved audio.  XA compliant requires special
chips on the drive's controller board.  The main benefit of ADPCM is that the
audio takes up less disc space because it is compressed, and the interleaving
allows recording a continuous soundtrack on the disc.  Standard ISO 9660 discs
don't use ADPCM, and can only attach short sound bites to individual or groups
of images.

To summarize and in my opinion, the backbone of Photo CD is software - not
expensive hardware.  Granted, the sophisticated equipment required to scan and
process photographic slides and negatives into high resolution digital images
is almost magical.  But recording VGA quality computer graphics to a Photo CD
is a totally different matter. Because multisession recording capability
eliminates the need for a giant hard disc and continuous recording, the only
hardware requirement is a computer and a CD-ROM writer/drive.  As best I can
determine, a CD-R blank recordable media disc and a blank Photo CD are exactly
the same.

The remainder of this post requires a great stretch of the imagination, and
demonstrates a fondness for connecting coincidences which may be totally
unrelated.  But here goes ....

Atari has shown interest in CD-ROM going back to 1985, when a CD-ROM player
was shown connected to the original 520ST.  The only CD-ROM drive Atari ever
marketed, the CDR-504, was withdrawn without explanation at about the same
time Kodak began developing their Photo CD technology.  When the Falcon030 was
displayed at COMDEX shortly after its introduction, the most prominent
demonstration was Photo CD capability - revealing a very high priority in
early applications development.

In Bill Rehbock's summary of the latest CEbit show, as reported in the July
'93 edition of ST Informer Magazine, and I quote "Color Concepts - ....
Philips, Kodak and Toshiba were all very impressed and surprised that we had
such a full implementation of Photo CD on the Falcon.  No other platform has
complete support for interactive/Portfolio Photo CD yet."

I should mention that Philips shares the patents for CD-ROM technology with
Sony, and that it was a Toshiba CD-ROM drive used with the Falcons at COMDEX.

My favorite edition of ST Informer is from October '92, with the article
describing the Falcon's introduction to the Boston Computer Society.  On page
31, there is an inset piece titled What Is Personal Integrated Media,
copyright 1992 Atari Corp.  This article is Atari's description of how the
Falcon030 will be used, which I will quote briefly and in part:

"Consumers will be able to use the Falcon030 as a color videophone,
communicating in sound and pictures with other Falcon owners.  The system
makes it possible to create home videos complete with text and music, record
lead vocals on a favorite rock 'n roll classic with the original musicians
playing along; narrate and score a family photo album, produce a visual family
tree, invent and play an adventure game set in a childhood home, and much
more."

I suppose one could use the Falcon to "narrate and score a family photo album"
on video tape, but I don't think that is what they were alluding to.  To
"invent and play an adventure game set in a childhood home" seems to me an
ideal application of the interactive capability of Portfolio Photo CD.  But
the real coincidence in this passage is the bit about the "visual family
tree," which seems to be lifted directly from the Kodak publicity statements
which Greg posted here several messages back.  While there seems to be a
dearth of Falcon specific hardware coming to market, Migraph was somehow
pursuaded to develop a color hand scanner - which would be vital for such
things a building a visual family tree or an adventure game set in a childhood
home.  Anybody got any photos of their childhood home?

Okay, is it just me or does Atari have big plans for Photo CD Portfolio?  How
about a "dumb" CD-ROM writer/drive that used the Falcon's internal circuitry
to reduce cost, and force purchase of the Falcon to make it work?  Wasn't this
idea tried with the Atari laser printers?  Can the Falcon's DSP be used to
process ADPCM audio, thereby eliminating the need for dedicated chips in the
drive itself?

I have no idea if Atari will ever again market a CD-ROM drive.  But if they
do, I'll bet dollars to donuts that it will be able to write to Kodak Photo
CDs.  As one Atari official stated "we see this computer as exceeding all of
the multimedia expectations of the computer buying public."  Well.... I'm
still waiting, and buying more stock in Atari Corp. to pass the time.

Gene

*Certain passages copyright Atari Corp. and ST Informer Magazine, where noted.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 46        Wed Sep 01, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:38 EDT

Al,

        By all means let's add to the $100K mastering system's price. <grin>
Thanks for the info.

Gene,

        Great post!

 Take Care,
 Lee B.
 Middle Georgia Atari User's Group (MGAUG) Newsletter Editor


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 47        Wed Sep 01, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 11:01 EDT

LEE,

Your welcome.

GENE:

That was an excellent summary.  Pinnacle/Micro has CD-ROM/Audio maker or
writer for $3995.  Its probably not a double speed unit however but the price
is very attractive.  This includes software too.  Most  pre-mastering software
ranges from the low $2000 to $10,000+ depending on its capability.
Pinnacle/Micro (800)-553-7070 is you want more information.

Multi-Session is not specific to Photo CDs by the way.  Multi-Session can be
used with any type of data CD-ROMs.  Only audio CDs can't be used unless you
developed your own proprietary way of mastering the audio and writing your own
drivers.  Multi-Session is part of the Orange-Book  specification - [PART-II]
CD-WO.

Also when it comes to recording CD-ROMs it is required that the data stream be
continuous.  If there is a slight delay you have a new $40 frisbee. <grin>
Some systems like Young Minds CD-STUDIO creates the files on your computer and
then dumps it to the studios 1 gigabyte hard disk.  Then the studio's hard
drive/small computer handle all interaction with the CD-Writer.  So the
chances of making a frisbee is much, much lower.  A good UPS (uninterruptable
power supply) is  something good to have as well.

There was some code on internet which was supposed to allow one to read Photo
CDs.  Kodak lawyer helped to persaude the sites that is was not a good idea.
I suppose if you had that information or just  reversed engineered the Kodak
Photo CD information you could probably create your own Photo CD disks.  Since
all the CD-Writer is seeing is a long bit stream or image of a CD-ROM.  I'm
sure Kodak would use the appropriate persuation techniques to keep you from
marketting such an item.  Photo CD has done quite a bit to raise the public's
awareness of CD-ROM in general which is very good for all users and developers
alike. If they could get the CD-Writers to under $1000 that would make me
happy. <grin>
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 48        Thu Sep 02, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 07:53 EDT

I strongly believe the price of CD-ROM writers will fall, and perhaps fairly
quickly.  The authoring software, well...er, that's a different matter.

The Sony MiniDisc system uses recordable media.  The main difference between
MiniDisc and CD-R is the size of the disc media and the data compression
technology, i.e. ROM chips.  I recently saw a Walkman sized portable Minidisc
recorder/player advertised for $679.

When ordinary audio CD players were first introduced they were about $1,000;
when VCR's first came out they were close to $1,500.  I remember buying a lot
of ordinary blank VHS tapes for $35 each.  Again, there is nothing in the
hardware or manufacturing costs that would make a CD-ROM writer cost any more
than a drive that can read only.  If CD-ROM writers were to become a mass
produced consumer item, economies of scale and competition would drive down
the price as with all other electronic consumer gadgets.  On the other hand,
how many consumers will want to create their own CD-ROMs?  Making "visual
family trees" and "adventure games set in a childhood home" may be good
advertising hype, but for most consumers this not going to replace dancing or
watching football on TV.  How many consumers really want to be multimedia
authors?

In any case, SONY MiniDisc is priced for consumers and they are currently
developing the product for computer interface/data storage. MiniDisc needs a
competitor, and Photo CD Portfolio seems to fit the bill.  At the Summer CES,
Kodak demonstrated a $400 portable Photo CD player that externally looks just
like a SONY DiscMan - but its twice the price.  Who would buy this thing,
except someone wanting to take interactive multimedia presentations on the
road?

Kodak is marketing Photo CD related computer software applications under their
own name.  In a recent RTC, Bob Brodie mentioned that a Falcon030 had been
shipped to Kodak and that they were a registered developer.  Heck, I think
there's good reason to be optimistic about the future of the Falcon030.

Gene


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 49        Thu Sep 02, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 11:23 EDT

The Sony recordable is lossy compression.  Only good for pictures and audio.
I don't think it would be useful for important computer data. I don't know if
they have compared the quality (audio) wise to a DAT and see if its close or
not.

CD-Writers in general are still not plug in and play yet.  Users still need to
be careful about choosing their hardware so everything will work together.  I
keep reading about some hard drives that perform automatic calibration at (the
drives convience) so some people were making quite a bit of $40 frisbees.
<grin>

Even still making your own custom CD-ROM is still relatively inexpensive.
Walnut Creeks $200 CD if you supply the data on tape of 600+ floppies is not a
bad deal.

-- Alebrt
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 50        Thu Sep 02, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 19:14 EDT

Albert,

I think Walnut Creek's $200 CD-ROM offer is a tremendous bargain. For most
people, it will always be more economical to use someone else's equipment
rather than buy their own.  CD-ROM authoring is a creative endeavor, and most
of us will run out of creativity before we can justify the cost of owning our
own writer.

Gene
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 51        Thu Sep 02, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 20:27 EDT

Gene,

Walnut Creek is probably the only company that I know of that will take 600+
floppies.  Most of the others seem to require 8mm exabyte tape or a 4mm DAT
tape for your data.  Or others say you can send floppies but only a maximum of
10.

It would be great to have all the START, Analog, Compute's Atari ST and other
software all on a CD-ROM.  It would have to worry about the data loss much
less. <grin>  Kodak had a release on how long their CDs (Kodak brand) will
last before failing ... 100 years was the estimate at the very least.  I don't
know how long the audio or other CDs will last ... I don't recall seeing any
data on those discs.

I remember being a strong critic of CD-ROM but after I was forced into the
technology I learned how great it was.  In my interview with  Scott Brownstein
(of Kodak ... or rather used to be) I never thought og of the CD-WO being
being both writeable and pressible.  One CD can be made every 4 to 6 seconds
... thats not bad when you need 680 megs fast and in quantity.  That one of
the many important things I learned 'in that conversation.  Also a sound
understanding of how Multi-Session works at the low-level (e.g. TOC).

From a programmers perspective CD-ROM is probably the best gift to come along
in a long time.  With all the room it provides and having tons of source code
for a good price it simply amazing.  C Users Journal (disc made by Walnut
Creek) is only $50 versus $3500+ for the same code on floppy disks.  Dr. Dobbs
Journal is coming out with theirs for $80. This includes 5 and 1/2 years of
articles and source code (published and unpublished).  This is probably one of
the few times the articles are included most CD-ROM that I have seen don't
include articles but only source.  There are many others on the way from other
companies as well.

The CUJ would be over 400 discs which I would not like to keep track of
either.  I'm sure Dr. Dobbs (DDJ) would be similar as well on pricing.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 52        Thu Sep 02, 1993
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 23:28 EDT

Help Help

I am trying to access my CD ROM, maybe some of you professional types will be
able to set me on the right path.  I have TEXEL DM-3024 internall SCSI hooked
up to a Falcon as device ID 2.  I am running photo show driver giving Q2 as
logical drive and ID.  MultiTOS loads MiNT ok and shows driver installed.  If
I try to access a DOS type CD application the light on the CD turns orange,
flickers and then goes to green but nothing comes up on the desktop.
Shouldn't I get a directory at least?  Will Photo Show driver give me a
directory of an application other than a photo CD?

I have tried ICD's CD ROM driver but it tells me SCSI device 2 is not
responding.  If I run ICD's ID check I get ID 2: Texel CD ROM DM xx24 k.  If I
use the control panel to access adSCSI.CPX and use the Einloggen command to
install devices then when I double click on Q I get the message "no such
device"

Anybody know what's going on here?  This is the sort of thing that makes me a
=-= Grouch (:{ =-=
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 53        Fri Sep 03, 1993
J.RENNER1 [Kheldar]          at 00:03 EDT

Gee that's too bad that Kodak is making falcon software. Their Windows
programs are some of the worst applications i have ever seen.

Kheldar.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 54        Fri Sep 03, 1993
DMJ [dmj]                    at 00:06 EDT

Albert:

I understand the going rate for a one-off CD is from $150 to $250, weighted
towards the $250 end.  $200 is a pretty good deal.

All you need is about 680M of data to fill up a CD... <g>

     -dmj

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 55        Fri Sep 03, 1993
GREG                         at 00:08 EDT

Try opening the drive several times with the driver included with Photo Show.
It sounds like the drive is timing out. A second or third try may work. Also
try ejecting the disc and then reopening the desktop directory.

The Photo Show driver has been tested with the NEC-38 and Toshiba 3401 drives.
Both are double speed drives. If your drive has a SCSI / SCSI-2 setting, use
the SCSI-2 setting.

A DOS CD rom or Photo CD rom disc both look exactly like a very large hard
drive in your drive directory window in TOS.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 56        Fri Sep 03, 1993
GREG                         at 00:12 EDT

J.RENNER1:

If you are looking for Photo CD software for Windows that is better than Kodak
Access, check out our Virtual BookMaker for Windows. Leave E-mail to GREG with
your address and I'll get a flyer out to you.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 57        Fri Sep 03, 1993
SAM-RAPP [<<Sam>>]           at 01:11 EDT

Gene, MiniDisc has a competitor.  It's called DCC (Digital Compact Cassette).
I probably don't follow the news as much as you, but I think it will be YEARS
before a recordable 5.25 inch CD will reach consumer price levels.  It sounds
promising now, but hey, remember bubble memory?

-----------------> Sam


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 58        Fri Sep 03, 1993
REALM [Joey]                 at 05:34 EDT

    I don't think it'll be years before a 5.25 inch CD hits the shelf. The
recording stuff is already there, SONY just went to a different size and
method.  The actually writing device should remain the same as your only
recording 0 and 1's to the actual disk.  I would guess they went to a smaller
format for marketing reasons.  They can now take the 2.5" disk system and use
it with computer products such as laptops, camera's, electronic books and such
where a 5.25" disk would be bulky.  The smaller size is probable easier on
battery life as well.

    Even if Sony's 2.5" format has terrible compression it's still cheap.
Lets say you can only get 20megs of data on a disk for 8$. What if Sony says
you can buy a drive for your computer that will record 70minutes of music or
store 20 megs of data.  The drive is $300 and the disks are about $8 each.
What if they do a combo 3.5" and 2.5" drive?  Anyway, I think it has the
potential to at least replace the 3.5" drives if handled correctly.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 59        Fri Sep 03, 1993
STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS]        at 05:54 EDT

AEO.1 - MiniDisc is just a media format.  While audio MDs use lossy
compression algorithms (and no, it's not that close to even CDs, let alone
DATs!), it can be used (w/o any compression) for data applications -- and they
are already working on MD data drives for computers.  Also, as far as digital
audio is concerned, Phillips' DCC is actually better quality sound-wise, but
MD is more versatile.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 60        Fri Sep 03, 1993
T.ZENTHOEFE1 [Tom Z.]        at 08:09 EDT

Albert, the one drawback to putting the programs from the defunked Atari
magazines is is that the programs published belong to the original programmers
and would have to be contacted for permission. Also some of them never
received contracted for payment for the publication.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 61        Fri Sep 03, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 09:07 EDT

DMJ:

Finding 680 megs would be the easy part. <grin>

Steve:

I never heard of computer data being stored on Minidisks except for lossy
compress things like audio and pictures (using jpeg or something along those
lines).  How recent did they (Sony) say "normal data?" Also did they say it
could be used specifically for backup or just for use on a computer system?

Tom:


That would be fun attempting to track down all of the programmers and re-
writing contracts. <grin>

Greg:

I seem to recall that some CD-ROM drives have problems going from a Photo CD
to a normal CD for some strange reason.  Of course this could just apply to
single session drives (for using Photo CD).

Grouch:

Do you have the latest firmware from Texel?  I think they have released
'several different versions recently.  The newest one was supposed to fix some
problems and support multi-session fully.  It was a $20 upgade or something
relatively inexpensive.  Also is your CD-ROM drive properly terminated (SCSI)?
What version of ICD's software are you running?  The newest is 6.2.0 in their
library.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 62        Fri Sep 03, 1993
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 23:02 EDT

Albert -

I am using ICD's latest, but the CD Rom driver on disk B has not been changed
for a while.  The drive comes factory set to SCSI ID 2 and that is the ID it
returns for the ICD ID check and that is the ID it should have as it comes
after HD 0 and HD 1 but before HD 3. Termination is off, HD 3 provides
termination.  I shall try double clicking on my drive icon a bunch of times
instead of giving up so soon.

As to firmware, whatsat?  Is it like a hardware upgrade?  These folks have a
Santa Clara phone number, that makes them area code neighbors so to speak, so
I will give them a call.  Thanks for the suggestions.
 If I keep plugging away I'm bound to stumble on the right combination of
actions sooner or later or even later than that. right?
Grouch (:{
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 63        Sat Sep 04, 1993
STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS]        at 03:46 EDT

AEO.1 - The compression used in MD -- PASC -- is specifically for audio data.
If you bypass the compression (which a data MD drive would), then you
basically have a 150MB (or whatever) magneto-optical drive.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 64        Sun Sep 05, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 02:02 EDT

Grouch,

Firmware upgrade is just a chip/rom upgrade.  I know that people were
complaining about some problems with its multi-session support.  But a rom
upgrade solved the problem.  I guess you should call Texel and see if you have
the latest version.  They were performing the upgrades(you send Texel the
drive) for $20.

Steve,

Okay that makes sense an MO drive with lossy compression capability.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 65        Mon Sep 06, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 08:51 EDT

Al,

        Do you have any contact information for Walnut Creek ?  Are they on
GEnie or The Internet ?

Damien,

        I _know_ you've got 680 MB of GIFs laying around! <grin> I've got over
300 diskettes worth of "archives" myself.  The last hundred or so are 1.44 MB
each too.  Maybe someday I'll have a CD-ROM pressed. <grin>

Sam,

        I remember bubble memory - in fact I've _used_ it.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 66        Mon Sep 06, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert]               at 11:23 EDT

Lee B.,

I don't have contact information for Walnut Creek off the top of my head.  It
was in AEO_201.LZH and the first issue of AEO Programmers Journal.  I'm sure
they have an internet address as well but not sure if I listed it or not.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 67        Mon Sep 06, 1993
GREG                         at 13:23 EDT

There is now a Falcon 030 true color demo of the capabilities of the Falcon
and digitized images. The file is PHOTOSHO.ZIP, File #29880, in library 10
here. It's a big file that unzips to over 1.4 meg.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 68        Tue Sep 07, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 11:42 EDT

Lee B,

Phone number for Walnut Creek is 510-674-0783.  They have a nice color
advertisement in the August issue of PC Magazine listing a variety of material
on disc.  Typical is as follows:  *GIFs Galore CD-ROM - $24.95.  Over 6,000
full color images!  There are dozens of categories including art, aviation,
birds, cars, fantasy, fish, flowers, fractals, military, people, places, sci-
fi, space, swimsuit, etc.  Arrays of reduced images are provided on the disc
for quick previewing.  Viewers and utilities are provided for MS-DOS, Windows,
Macintosh, Amiga, Atari-ST, and Unix.

Gene
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 70        Thu Sep 09, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 18:27 EDT

Albert,

        Thanks I'll look in AEO PJ for Walnut Creek.


Gene,

        Thanks for the info!

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 71        Tue Sep 14, 1993
GREG                         at 01:38 EDT

I uploaded a few FTC files to use with the Photo Show demo in the libraries
here. A zipped FTC runs around 100K or less.

If you have gotten some great PCD pics back from Kodak, how about putting some
of the better ones up in library 5!
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 72        Tue Sep 21, 1993
GREG                         at 22:51 EDT

It was nice getting a chance to meet all the online names that we have
communicated with on GEnie at the Glendale show last weekend.

Our booth was right across from Compo and I got a chance to pick up their
Studio Photo. The program does some nice effects and supports Photo CD too.

We got some nice feedback on Photo Show at Glendale. A thanks goes out to
everyone who stopped by to say hi.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 73        Wed Sep 22, 1993
GREG                         at 00:05 EDT

The following drives are now also confirmed as working with Photo Show and the
Version .6 XFS drivers included with the program:

NEC CDR-55 NEC 38 NEC CDR-84 Toshiba 3401

The NEC drives have been tested for single-session only.

If you have had success with other CD rom drives, please leave E-mail to GREG
here.

The above drives will read both 9660 and Photo CD format on the Falcon and the
TT running the release version of MultiTOS.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 74        Wed Sep 22, 1993
REALM [Joey]                 at 05:04 EDT

   Greg, Wish you would be quit, your making me want a CDROM.:-)  Got a spot
just begging for one!  I don't know that much about them though.

   Do CD ROM's have a standardized format?  Could I buy clipart disks for the
MAC and IBM and use the GIF's and TIFF's just like I can with a floppy?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 75        Wed Sep 22, 1993
SANDY.W [sysop]              at 14:01 EDT

Joey - I'm sure Greg can answer your questions, but for an excellent article
covering CD-ROMs and the Atari, check out the first AEO, file #27193.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 76        Wed Sep 22, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 23:50 EDT

Sandy,

Thanks for the plug. <grin>  Were you at Glendale I must have missed you 'if
you were.

Greg,

I noticed the Kodak has a new CD Writer that 6x ... and can produce a  CD in
10 minutes.  Also Yamaha has a new CD-Writer that is 4x too.  Kodak is also
releasing the portfolio format script language too.  Its supposed to be at the
freely available to anyone.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 78        Thu Sep 23, 1993
SANDY.W [sysop]              at 10:26 EDT

Albert - I was very much at Glendale! Where were you?? :-)
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 79        Thu Sep 23, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 20:13 EDT

Sandy,

I was running around getting upgrades.  I kept running into people from my old
user group too.  But I was amazed at how good the Photo CD pictures looked on
the TV set (by Photo show).  Calamus SL had Photo CD too.  Its just amazing
how nice that technology (Photo CD) really is.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 80        Thu Sep 23, 1993
GREG                         at 22:51 EDT

AEO.1:

Saw an ad for a $3995 CD rom WRITER in the new issue of Byte magazine. Best
price I have seen so far.

REALM:

A CD rom disc looks just like a very large hard drive to TOS. The AEO article
was very good. Make sure you read it. I would suggest a double speed drive as
a minimum. See my previous post for the list of drives tested soo far with the
Version 0.6 XSF driver included with Photo Show.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 81        Fri Sep 24, 1993
REALM [Joey]                 at 05:10 EDT

   Greg,  If I pick one up it'll definately be one that works.:-) I'll get the
AEO artical.  I've got some other stuff on my wish list first but this is
quickly climbing the chain!
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 82        Fri Sep 24, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 09:59 EDT

Greg,

Those prices are really dropping on CD-Writers ... that Kodak 6x writer will
really drop the prices some more too.  Maybe if they can have one for under
$1000 I would strongly consider it.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 83        Fri Sep 24, 1993
SANDY.W [sysop]              at 11:24 EDT

After reading Albert's article I got a lot more interested in CD-ROMs. Then I
saw the photo CDs and got even more interested. It is definitely on my wish
list.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 84        Fri Sep 24, 1993
GREG                         at 23:27 EDT

AEO.1

Let me know where to mail my check for a $1,000 CD writer. :->

SANDY.W

We've got quite a bit of use from our CD rom drive. There are quite a few .FLI
animations available that can't be had any other way due to size. The ANIMTOOL
program posted in the libraries here does a nice job displaying them on an
Atari machine. In fact they look and run better on our Falcon than they do on
the 386.

There are also several sound disks that are very good.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 85        Fri Sep 24, 1993
GREG                         at 23:31 EDT

HELP

I'm looking for an image editor that displays all 16 bits of the Falcon's 16
bit true color mode. I'm currently using Studio Photo and have found that a
bit of color is either missing or misplaced on the screen image. A color count
by Photo Lab of the disk image done with the Photo Show Photo CD converter
module shows 57,000 shades. A color count of a Photo CD image converted with
Studio Photo comes up with 20,000 shades.

For example, when viewing the "Lady in Red" on the Kodak Access sampler disc,
a very noticeable posterization occurs on the right side of the lady's face.
Using Gem View 2.13, the same posterization occurs on the Falcon. Photo Show
does not show this posterization to the same degree.

Neither the Photo Show nor Studio Photo version of the image displays with
posterization in 24 bit color modes.

Does anyone know if True Paint shows an image using all 16 bits of the Falcon
palette? Does it save as 24 bit color? Are there any other image editors for
the Falcon's true color mode?

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 86        Sat Sep 25, 1993
GREG                         at 00:11 EDT

Kodak Press release...........

KODAK WILL PUBLISH SCRIPT LANGUAGE FOR CREATING PHOTO CD PORTFOLIO DISCS

WIESBADEN, Germany, Sept. 22-Eastman Kodak Company plans to publish the Kodak
Photo CD Portfolio description language, allowing developers to incorporate
Photo CD Portfolio authoring capability in their applications at no charge.

Kodak described the announcement as a first step in its comprehensive strategy
to enable users to author Photo CD Portfolio discs.  The company said it
expects to provide more details about the strategy next month at the Seybold
San Francisco conference.

Visitors to the Kodak exhibit here at Intermedia Europe (booth 9209) will see
technology demonstrations of two software applications that output the script
for authoring Kodak Photo CD Portfolio discs, a format designed for
interactive CD-ROM publishing.  Once the Kodak software is developed as a
product, the company said, it will make the Photo CD Portfolio script language
available to software developers free of charge.

Strategy Overview Kodak's strategy is designed to allow the broadest possible
range of users to author Photo CD Portfolio discs-just as almost any computer
user with a compatible CD-ROM drive now can read and display Photo CD images,
using Kodak software or Photo CD- enabled products from other companies.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 87        Sat Sep 25, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 09:29 EDT

Greg,

        Do you have a version of ANIMTOOL that will display .FLI animations
directly ?  I've been using FLICONV to convert them to .TATs and displaying
them with ANIMTOOL...

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 88        Sat Sep 25, 1993
GREG                         at 17:23 EDT

L.W.BENJAMIN:

I'm using the ANIMTOOL FLI to TAT converter that you had suggested to me a
couple of weeks ago.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 89        Sat Sep 25, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 20:52 EDT

  This probably isn't the right place to post this but I downloaded the Photo
Show demo and when I try to run a script I get two bombs and my resolution
gets all screwed up. I'm running a Falcon 030 in hi-res 256 color 80 column
mode with a VGA monitor.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 90        Sat Sep 25, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 23:06 EDT

Greg,

I think we have something like the portfolio format already.  DO you know
anything about Photo Show? <big grin> '   -- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 91        Sun Sep 26, 1993
GREG                         at 00:00 EDT

O-ZONE:

Try the demo from either 16 or 4 color mode on the VGA. That should do the
trick for you. You should have at least 1.7 meg free when running the program.

We have had reports that the program bombed in 256 color with VGA only. It
should run with any other combination of color depth and monitor outside of
monochrome. I'll track the problem down and let you know when a fix is ready.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 92        Sun Sep 26, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 08:26 EDT

Greg,

        Okay, I just wanted to know if you had something that would show .FLI
animations directly.  We may have one _someday_.  Thanks. The only problem
with converting to .TAT is disk space.  I've got two 50MB drives and one has a
partition on it that's going flaky on me, and it was the partition with all
the free space on it. :(  Oh well. I guess I'm just interested in too many
other things or I'd make some space for the .FLI conversions too.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 93        Sun Sep 26, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 11:18 EDT

Lee,

Have you run Diamond Edge, Hard Disk Sentry or Clean-up to see if there are
any problems in your fat, directory structure?  On the drive that is acting
flakey.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 94        Sun Sep 26, 1993
GREG                         at 15:24 EDT

L.W.BENJAMIN:

Viewing FLI files in the works for View II along with a Photo CD viewer add-on
for the program using Falcon 16 bit color.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 95        Sun Sep 26, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 16:01 EDT

GREG,

  Nope. Bombs in 16 and 4 color modes also.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 96        Sun Sep 26, 1993
SAM-RAPP [<<Sam>>]           at 22:42 EDT

Flakes....  Do you have FPATCH1.PRG in your auto folder?  Are you running on a
VGA or SC1224/TV?

----------> Sam


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 97        Mon Sep 27, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:51 EDT

Albert,

        I've run Clean-up several times and each time it finds more and more
bad sectors in that one partition "O:".  I reformatted the drive two or three
times and each time I'd get a few more errors. Then the drive would seem fine
until it started throwing code 17 errors (recoverable reads) then finally code
11s (unrecoverable reads).  I think it's a bad place on the media.  The drive
is used, but in a "rebuilt" warranty.  The only problem is that I need the
space at least until I finish my newsletter since PageStream is on drive "N:".
I may just buy a 150MB drive and then send off the 50MB drive.

        Thanks for asking.

Greg,

        I wasn't sure I should mention the View II capability since I'm a beta
tester for it! <G>  I'd forgotten about the DMJ-IAR relationship at the time.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 98        Mon Sep 27, 1993
J.HOOD9 [Jim]                at 08:13 EDT

 R. Nelson
 Re: Texel CD-ROM drive DM-3024 & Photo CD.
 I know how you feel.
 Here's what I have learned.
 I bought Calamus SL with their Kodak Photo CD Import Module and tried to use
it with a Multisession compatible Toshiba drive, using METADOS.PRG, but could
not read anything from a Photo CD. After talking with DMC, they sent me
TOSHIBA2.PRG which was supposed to get my TT and the Toshiba communicating. I
still couldn't get directories or anything from Photo CD's.
 A dealer showed me his TT reading Photo CD's with a Texel DM-3024, so I
bought it. I then spent a couple of weeks learning about SCSI cables,
termination and a bunch of stuff that could screw up my system.
 Eventually I found with METADOS.PRG, CONFIG.SYS and TOSHIBA2.PRG in my AUTO
folder I could click on the ISO9960 icon and get a directory showing me the
1st session files on my Photo CD's. Calamus SL would load these fine. I could
not get my TT to recognize subsequent sessions. (My TT usually timed out
before it made contact with the Texel DM-3024. TOSHIBA2.PRG would then go in
and pound on the door until the Texel drive finally answered. A message would
then display saying there was an error sending the Toshiba MODE SELECT; but it
did get the TT and Texel talking.
 I called Texel and found I had a "pre-Multisession" ROM chip in my drive. The
Multisession ROM is identified by a sticker on the case with a "K" on it. The
"k" in your ICD SCSI ID check indicates your drive is Multisession.
 I sent Texel $10. They sent me the upgrade chip and a disk with upgraded
driver software for DOS & Windows machines.
 I installed the chip & METADOS would no longer recognize the Texel drive. It
is my understanding that METADOS is not Multisession aware anyway.
 About that time Atari released CDROMx##.XFS to use with MultiTOS in place of
METADOS.PRG & CONFIG.SYS. This combination seems to work fine with some CD-ROM
drives. Greg, of It's All Relative, has been posting lists of drives that
work. I was able to read files from all sessions on Multisession Photo CD's
with a Toshiba drive & MultiTos/CDROMx##.XFS, but I continued having trouble
with my Texel DM-3024.
 With no disk in the Texel, it initializes immediately and my TT recognizes
it, but can't determine if it's ISO9660 or High Sierra format & hangs up if I
then put in a Photo CD & click on the CD disk icon.
 With a music disk in the Texel, it initializes in about 4 seconds, the TT
recognizes it & I can then put in a Photo CD; wait for the Texel busy light to
go off; and get a directory of the 1st session files.
 With a Photo CD in the Texel, it initializes in 12 to 15 seconds and the TT
won't recognize it unless I run TOSHIBA2.PRG in the AUTO folder before
MINT.PRG runs. In that case it will again only recognize the 1st session
files.
 So I suspect that MultiTOS & CDROMx##.XFS don't pester the Texel drive long
enough to force it to find the subsequent session files. As you can see from
the above initialization times, the Texel is quite slow reading info off of
Photo CD's.
 A clone owning friend also has a Texel DM-3024 and after we installed the
Texel Windows driver upgrade in his machine it was able to access all files on
Multisession Photo CD's.
 In summary:
 If you boot with a music CD in your Texel and run MultiTOS, with CDROMx##.XFS
in the root directory of your boot partition, you should be able to access 1st
session files on Photo CD's.
 If you boot with a Photo CD in your Texel, you need to have TOSHIBA2.PRG
ahead of MINT.PRG in your AUTO folder.
 In both cases, make sure the busy light is out on the Texel before booting
your Atari, and make sure it is out after changing disks when trying to read a
directory.
 Texel doesn't support Atari's, so a driver fix for their CD drive will
probably depend on Atari. I may sell the Texel & get the Toshiba. *S


Jim
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 99        Mon Sep 27, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 18:58 EDT

  OK, I got it to work. Was a CPX or a limited memory conflict. It is an
impressive demo.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 100       Mon Sep 27, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 19:27 EDT

Lee,

I would try running Diamond Edge v1.1 and see what you come up with. The
results I have gotten with the Clean-Up are strange and never seem to be
repeatable.   I assumed you checked your cables (power and scsi/dma are
secure) and working.  Also make sure your total cable length is under 3 feet I
believe.  I was having some really strange intermittent problems that could
not be reproduced very well.  Read and write problems, drive doesn't exist,
unexaplained crashes ... and it was all the result of the combined total of
the DMA cables being too long.

Jim,

That is an interesting problem you experience with Multi-Session discs. It
would be nice if the drivers were configurable so one could change the the
amount of time it takes to timeout, the number of retries to read a sector,
etc.  Maybe it does have some configurability but since I don't use the
drivers on my machine I'm not certain.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 101       Mon Sep 27, 1993
POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC]      at 21:59 EDT

Excellent post Jim. Thanks for sharing it with us all.

Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 102       Mon Sep 27, 1993
GREG                         at 21:59 EDT

Single-session Vs. Multi-session Photo CD

There appears to be some confusion on the need of multi-session CD rom drives
for use with Photo CD.

Most Photo CD processors will make a single session disc for you if you
request it.

As an example a Nec-38 drive that is currently single-session with the latest
XFS driver. A Nec-38 drive retails for about $399. The possibilty even exists
that a multi-session driver will be available in the future.

A Toshiba 3401 is multi-session and retails for about $599. The difference
between the two drives is $200.

For Photo CD processing, most developers have a media charge of somewhere
between $5.00 and $10.00. It would take between 20 and 40 rolls of film before
a multi-session drive makes financial sense.

Very few people go through this much film in a year or two. Before you invest
in a CD rom drive, run the calculations and see what is the best value for
your situation.

Getting a CD rom drive from your local Atari dealer makes sense too. You know
exactly what you are getting and can have an expert help you with cables and
software.

If you think connecting a CD rom to an Atari Falcon is confusing, try doing an
installation on a fully carded PC! Setting DMA, Int, Irq, jumpers, and MSCDEX
settings right can be tough. With the Falcon all you need to do with the RIGHT
hardware is rename your CDROM##.XFS file to the drive letter and device ID.
Drop the file in your MULTITOS folder and reboot.

We have a mutli-session drive and still put one 24 or 36 exposure roll of film
on a CD as it makes it easier to organize our graphics. After all, you don't
keep all your negatives and prints in one big box :->
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 103       Tue Sep 28, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:44 EDT

Albert,

        I would try Diamond Edge if I _had_ Diamond Edge.  I'll have to figure
out if I want to buy Diamond Edge or another drive and Diamond Edge <G>.
Thanks for the advice.

Whoever,

        I wrote to Bill Rehbock about getting the CDROM##.XFS driver, but I
haven't heard anything back yet.  I don't understand why the don't just post
it in the libraries.  I understand a MultiTOS update is in the works.  Perhaps
they'll include it with that.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 104       Tue Sep 28, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 17:21 EDT

Lee,

Have you checked your cable length too??

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 105       Wed Sep 29, 1993
GREG                         at 01:33 EDT

L.W.BENJAMIN:

The most current XFS CD rom driver is actually a third party driver that
requires a license fee per copy as part of the Kodak Photo CD Toolkit package.
I've found it to be very solid compared to all alternatives at present.

I believe it is included with the Calamus Photo CD module (Nathan, am I
right?), our Photo Show, and in the next version of Studio Photo.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 106       Wed Sep 29, 1993
POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC]      at 10:29 EDT

You are correct Greg. I just checked to verify. We also ship the XFS CD driver
with our Kodak Photo CD import driver for Calamus SL.

Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 107       Wed Sep 29, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 18:58 EDT

  Upon further research I have discovered that the Photo show demo will not
load a script and run unless you have no AUTO, DA programs running or you are
running Multi-TOS. I don't know if this is widely known but I don't much like
Multi-TOS because it slows things down so much. How about a version of Photo
show that will run without Multi-TOS installed but allow you to run AUTO and
DA programs?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 108       Wed Sep 29, 1993
GREG                         at 22:55 EDT

O-ZONE:

If you don't need Photo CD access from CD rom, you can run Photo Show with or
without MultiTOS. MultiTOS is required only for CD access using the XSF driver
for CD rom.

If you are having problems without MultiTOS, chances are an AUTO or CPX
program is misbehaving. Running MultiTOS shields Photo Show from the offending
program. E-mail me your AUTO/CPX list and I'll see if I can track the offender
down for you.

ALL:

A check with Atari today verified that the version .6 XFS driver is the most
current version.

We have had reports of trouble using it with Texel drives. Atari verified that
the Texel drives do use a slightly non-standard form of SCSI-2 communication.
results with Texel drives can be flaky, your milage may vary.

NEC-38, NEC-55, NEC-84, and Toshiba 3401 have all been tested as working with
the version .6 driver and the Falcon.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 109       Thu Sep 30, 1993
GREG                         at 00:08 EDT

I checked the Kodak and CD rom forums on the other service tonight and found
six threads on problems with using a Texel CD rom and Trantor or Corel SCSI-2
cards on the PC.

A user also posted that Texel had problems reading Photo CD and the factory
was aware of the problem. The offer an adjustment for $20.00.

Another user posted that the Texel would not read any CD on his PC after
getting it adjusted by the factory for Photo CD.

Until we hear otherwise, I would put the Texel CD rom drives on the "not
suggested" list for interface with Atari.

Does anyone have a reliable Texel setup with an Atari computer? If you do,
what hardware / driver combination do you use.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 110       Thu Sep 30, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:46 EDT

Al,

        My cable length is OK as I have one 18" cable, and the disk worked
fine for a couple of months.  I bought the drive used, but it's got a
warranty.  After I finish my newsletter (within two weeks) I'll pull out the
drive and send it back.


Greg,

        Thanks for the info on the XFS driver.  Do you know if that can be run
with the 0.95 version of MiNT, or does it require MultiTOS ?  I have MultiTOS,
but if you happen to know it'll work with 0.95 MiNT, others might be
interested.  I got my copy of MultiTOS for $47 retail from "The Computer
Studio" (S.WINICK on GEnie).  A pretty good price, I'd say.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 111       Thu Sep 30, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 19:04 EDT

GREG,

  The crash occurs when I run ANY auto program or DA without MultiTOS and then
try to run Photo Show. It doesn't matter which one or how many.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 112       Thu Sep 30, 1993
D.NICOLAU [David]            at 22:20 EDT

  Single-session Vs. Multi-session Photo CD-

Why waste a CD with only 24 or 36 pictures when you can get around 100 +- on
it. If you think about the pictures you put on them, you can still organize
them fairly well.

Who care about RETAIL price, Street price for the Toshiba 3401 is under $400.
And the speed is one of the fastest.

A single session CD is only if you put one roll of film on the CD. Once you
put the second roll on it you go to Multi-session.

This is just my thoughts.

David

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 113       Thu Sep 30, 1993
GREG                         at 23:38 EDT

D.NICOLAU:

Two reasons for one disc per set of graphics:

I always get nervous when I send the "only one" of anything away to someone
else. What if your disc gets lost or misdirected in the mail.

What happens if you damage a disc? Putting a lot on one makes it worse. We've
tried a damage test on a disc, and a few deep scrathes in the right places can
do harm. Murphy's Law states that something like this can only happen to your
most valuable or irreplaceable disc.

L.W.BENJAMIN:

I haven't tried it myself, but have been told that XFS drivers require MINT to
run, they do not require MultiTOS. For most users, MultiTOS is their only
access to MINT.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 114       Fri Oct 01, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 00:33 EDT

Greg,

The Toshiba 3401 (bare) can be had for $385 or so which is the lowest  I've
seen on that drive.  Also the Chinion 535 drive is under $300 and it is
supposed to be SCSI-2, double speed 300k/s, Multi-session Photo CD compatible.
Microsoft is bundling it with Visual C++ too.  It will be interesting to see
what type of reviews the Chinion 535 receives overall.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 115       Fri Oct 01, 1993
MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp]        at 02:46 EDT

Anyone know anything about the TEAC CD-50?  Specs say 300k/sec and Multi-
session.  I believe SCSI2.  Have seen it in Computer Shopper at very
competetive prices.

        Mike Allen
        ST HelpDesk~Sysop

        Written: 11:55 PM Mountain Time
                 Thursday, September 30, 1993

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 116       Fri Oct 01, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 18:18 EDT

Mike,

Teac CD-ROM drives are repacked Texel drives I believe.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 117       Fri Oct 01, 1993
GREG                         at 22:39 EDT

MIKE-ALLEN:

I have not heard from anyone using Chinon with the XFS drivers.

We do know that the Texel drives have problems both on the PC and Falcon.

Currently tested as working with a Falcon / MultiTOS .6 XFS driver....

NEC-38, Nec-55, NEC-84, and Toshiba 3401.

If anyone has a system up and running with any other CD rom drive and the .6
XFS driver, please post the information here or in E-mail to GREG.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 118       Sun Oct 03, 1993
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 00:30 EDT

I can absolutly confirm that the TEXEL is a bad Bad BAD choice and that the
NEC-55 works quite well with a falcon system.  Took my TEXEL back to the
vendor after reading message 98 from J.HOOD9 (Thanks a heap, Jim!) and made a
swap for the NEC-55.  Brought the NEC home, stuck it in the system where the
TEXEL was, fired up the Falcon, ran MiNT and BAM! POW! was getting directories
with no further nonesense.  All my problems were related to the drive, not my
set-up.  Thanks for all the help.

Now, will someone please tell me how to run the CD encycloepdia, etc. that
came with the drive?               (:{ Grouch
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 119       Sun Oct 03, 1993
M.EASTER [Mike]              at 09:09 EDT

Grouch - re run the CD encyclopedia

See cat 4 top 19; but the answer isn't there. :-)
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 120       Sun Oct 03, 1993
GREG                         at 22:16 EDT

R.NELSON48

Glad to see you got the NEC-55 up and running so fast. Are you using the
Version .6 XFS driver with it. You may want to check out the Nautilus CD rom
magazine for the PC. Each issue is loaded with sound and graphics files that
can be heard and viewed on the Falcon.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 122       Thu Oct 07, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 19:47 EDT

Flakes,

That is a very interesting announcement on the 3X speed and that one can play
audio CDs fromt he front panel without a computer!  Thanks for the update on
the NEC CD-ROM drives.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 123       Thu Oct 07, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 21:39 EDT

Flakes thanks for the information! However, this message too has been deleted.
We try to avoid duplicate posts. Pointers to the full post is better. Thanks
again for your time and uploading the information.

Everyone, please see message 116 in topic 19 of category 4 for information on
a new line of NEC CD-ROMS.


~~Brian..Written on Thursday 07 October 1993 at 09:57 p.m. ADT

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 124       Fri Oct 08, 1993
GREG                         at 01:39 EDT

RE File #30297 RESFOOLR.ZIP

If you use RESFOOLR.ZIP with Photo Show on the Falcon, it will cause your
images to appear on the broadcast TV in an eleongated manner as the TV out on
the Falcon does not have the same aspect ratio as the RGB out.

With RESFOOLR, you can stretch your images to fill a full TV screen with- out
the need for a RGB adapter plugged into the monitor out port. For VGA owners
looking to record to VCR in cases where aspect ratio is not important, this
could actually be a handy way to stretch the image to full screen.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 125       Fri Oct 08, 1993
R.SATTLER [Mr.X]             at 10:22 EDT

I'm kinda confused... do you have to run MiNT to use a CD ROM drive with the
Falcon?

Also, are there any Atari or (better yet) Falcon-specific CD's available?
Someone also mentioned an encyclopedia, will it work with a Falcon?

Thanks for any answers!

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 126       Fri Oct 08, 1993
DMJ [dmj]                    at 20:30 EDT

The CD-ROM driver requires MiNT.

     -dmj

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 127       Sat Oct 09, 1993
D.NICOLAU [David]            at 00:01 EDT

GREG

 GOOD POINT (s) !! !!
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 128       Sat Oct 09, 1993
STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr]       at 05:05 EDT

R.SATTLER - Unfortunately, yes!  For some stupid reason, Atari has decided
only to support CD-ROMs for MultiTOS users.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 129       Sat Oct 09, 1993
DMJ [dmj]                    at 12:19 EDT

DrHfuhruhurr:

The reason the CD-ROM driver requires MultiTOS is that it requires MiNT's
ability to work with "alternate-format" drives.  The way MultiTOS is set up,
it should(?) even be possible to write a driver to let you access Mac hard
drives without Spectre.

Writing a CD-ROM driver for MiNT is relatively easy.  Writing one for TOS
(without using MiNT) is quite a bit harder.

     -dmj

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 130       Sun Oct 10, 1993
STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr]       at 09:37 EDT

DMJ - I know all of that -- I was just pointing out that Atari apparently has
decided ONLY to do MultiTOS/MiNT CD-ROM drivers, effectively dropping CD-ROM
support for non-MultiTOS users (i.e. no updates to Atari's broken MetaDOS for
CD-ROM support).
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 131       Sun Oct 10, 1993
DMJ [dmj]                    at 12:09 EDT

Dr Hfuhruhurr:

It makes no sense for Atari to fix the "broken MetaDOS".  What MetaDOS was
supposed to do, MultiTOS does much better.  While it would be nice to see a CD-
ROM driver for those of us who don't (or won't) use MultiTOS, I can't see
Atari doing it.

     -dmj

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 132       Sun Oct 10, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 12:26 EDT

DMJ,

I thought one could just run MiNT and have access to the CD-ROM driver used in
MultiTOS?

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 133       Sun Oct 10, 1993
GREG                         at 20:38 EDT

I posted the following open letter to Dale Strang, publisher of Amiga World,
in the Amiga area on CIS............

While browsing through some magazines at a news stand this weekend, the
October 1993 issue of Amiga World caught my eye. The cover featured a Kodak
Photo CD disc and a CD rom player.

As I wasn't aware that Photo CD was available on the Amiga, I bought a copy to
see what was new on the Amiga.

The text of the news on Photo CD follows....

"Photo CD has unofficial support on the Amiga because of a renegade software
effort from the internet network...."

I've always considered Amiga World to be a reliable source for honest
information. I was surprised that they would feature on their front cover
"renegade software effort from the Internet network".

Is Kodak aware of the "renegade software" available for the Amiga?

Is the Internet network aware of copyright?

As a developer, I would have second thoughts about developing for a system
that is so proud of their "renegade efforts" that they would herald it as a
cover worthy news item.

I'll have to pick up the November issue of Amiga World to see if they publish
an updated Pirate Bulletin Board List. I can see why software support for the
Amiga is faltering.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 134       Mon Oct 11, 1993
STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr]       at 05:32 EDT

DMJ - I'm not slamming MultiTOS at all.  I'm just saying that Atari SHOULD
support CD-ROM on their platform without the need for MultiTOS.  After all,
even Atari has recommended having at least a TT030 or Falcon030 for using
MultiTOS.  Then again, since the ST/STe is no more, it's not surprising Atari
doesn't plan on supporting those users for things like CD-ROM.


GREG - From what I've heard, Commodore hasn't been able to justify officially
licensing PhotoCD from Kodak.  Many of their users and developers are upset
with them about it.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 136       Thu Oct 14, 1993
GREG                         at 00:12 EDT

We have had several reports this week of problems with the Chinon CDX535 drive
and reading of Photo CD disks. We are trying to sort out the problem and will
post our results as soon as they are available.

The approved list for the version .6 MultiTOS XFS driver is still Toshiba 3401
- 9660, Photo CD XA, and Multi-session.

NEC-38, NEC-55, and NEC-84 - 9660 and single-session Photo CD XA

Texel - Not suggested
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 137       Sun Oct 17, 1993
JKUEHN [John]                at 07:04 EDT

AEO.1,

 Yes, you can run the Mint operating system and have access to Kodak Photo CDs
(PCDs) only. But, unless you are running an accelerated ST or Falcon, the
thruput is so slow that frustration soon sets in if you are doing any serious
work with the large amounts of data contained in the PCD image pack file
structure.

,

 What are the specifics of the Amiga PCD renegade effort? I am curious,
because, I know of a similar 'renegade' program, for the Atari ST, that
converts PCD pictures to QRT 24 bit true color .RAW format files.  These are
readable/viewable by the QRT and PHOTOCHROME3 programs, as well as being
convertable to SPECTRUM. The results are quite good, within the limitations of
the SPECTRUM 512/4096 and .SPX limitations.

 I know that the program would be made available here if possible??

                                          John K.


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 138       Sun Oct 17, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 14:41 EDT

John,

I wasn't sure of the throughput on the CD-ROM thanks for the update.

I don't know any thing about the "renegade" PCD efforts at all.  I know
someone had some code of Kodak's PCDs on internet (it was very temporary due
to Kodak's legal team <grin>).

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 139       Sun Oct 17, 1993
GREG                         at 20:14 EDT

JKUEHN:

The latest version of Photo Show requires about 20 seconds to access a full
screen image off the Photo CD disc running under MultiTOS on the Falcon 030
machine. This is as fast or faster than most other platforms that support
Kodak Photo CD.

If your running our software and not getting similar times, give us a voice
call and we can help you with some tweeks to MultiTOS to increase your PCD
access times.

It's All relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 140       Mon Oct 18, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 11:56 EDT

  The NEC Multispin 3Xp CD-ROM reader that I mentioned earlier is available
from Publishing Perfection at 800-782-5974. The price is $429 or $538 with
parallel to SCSI interface. Would I need this interface or, since I don't use
a printer on the Falcon, could I just get a DB25 cable and connect the CD-ROM
reader to the parallel port, assuming that the reader has a parallel port?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 141       Mon Oct 18, 1993
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 19:19 EDT

Flakes,

Even if you do hook up your CD-ROM drive to the parallel port what  software
drivers will you use?  I don't know of any hard drive/cd-rom drivers that
support it.

I suppose you could just use a DB-25 cable but the parallel/scsi cable has a
parallel port pass thru.  I'm assuming it is the Trantor Cable by the way.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 142       Mon Oct 18, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 20:39 EDT

Flakes,

        Are you saying that this drive isn't standard SCSI.  If it is you
should be able to hang it off your SCSI port on the Falcon... or add it to he
existing SCSI chain if there is one.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 143       Tue Oct 19, 1993
GREG                         at 00:01 EDT

O-ZONE:

I haven't seen the NEC 3Xp CD rom yet. If it runs off the parallel port, I
don't believe there is ANY CD rom driver for the Falcon using this port. (If
I'm wrong, someone please correct me.)

See my previous post on the drives that have been tested with the Version .6
CD rom driver included with Photo Show.

We may be able to add the NEC-74 to our approved list shortly.

ALL:

How much extra would it be worth to include a demo Photo CD with Photo Show?

Most users have run out and bought Kodak Access to get a demo disc of graphics
to play with till their own photos are ready. We are thinking of including a
demo Photo CD with Photo Show, but it would bump up the retail price. I'm
curious to see what an end user thinks a demo disc is worth.

L.W.BENJAMIN:

Not all SCSI-2 drives use the exact same command sets and have the same access
and read times. Just because a drive can be plugged into a SCSI-2 port doesn't
mean it will work with any CD rom driver. The  drive and driver must be
matched. When it comes to CD audio, the differences can be even greater.

When it comes to SCSI-2 Standard drives, the word "Standard" should be
footnoted in most cases.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 144       Tue Oct 19, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 21:29 EDT

  The thing is that they sell the thing at one price and then a SCSI to
parallel adapter at a higher price... Hey, wait a minnut! Maybe the thing has
s SCSI port and they sell the adapter for the other way around... yup, just
checked the liturature... stupid me! Oh, well... as Emily Latella used to
say...

  Guess it's time to order one! In granite gray to match the Falcon!
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 145       Tue Oct 19, 1993
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 21:45 EDT

Flakes,

NEC faxed me the information about the new 3Xp, as I too am very interested.

IT IS SCSI-1 / SCSI-2 switch selectable.  So we don't need the parallel to
SCSI interface. All we need is a cable, or maybe only an adaptor since the
cable is included.  And connect to the Falcon SCSI port.

The real question is, will the XFS driver work well with that new drive?  We
know the Multispin 38 does, but what with that new drive?

I prefer the 3Xp for:

1) Audio functions 2) Triple speed 3) Access time


Tintin
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 146       Wed Oct 20, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 05:45 EDT

Greg,

        I understand all too well as in the past I've worked with the so-
called RS-232 standard.  :)  I was just trying to get the discussion of
parallel ports out of the picture. <g>

        I think the demo Photo CD should be an option.  At swap meet type
computer shows you can purchase Photo CDs for about $20, even if you're not
supposed to be able to.

        I imagine the NEC '74 drives are getting less expensive fast as it's
an older drive, but a good one.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 147       Wed Oct 20, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 19:19 EDT

Tintin,

  Although the unit comes with a cable I don't think you should attempt to use
it. Atari puts +5V on pins 11 and 38, one of which is a SCSI 2 standard ground
or something of that nature and I remember hearing someone's horror story (I
think it was in the HD topic) of how he shorted out a couple of hard drives
before he discovered this. I may be wrong but best to check with the experts
before hooking it up. Pehaps someone from Toad Computers could tell us as they
do offer a Falcon 030 SCSI cable.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 148       Wed Oct 20, 1993
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 21:59 EDT

Flakes,

Buying the proper cable is preferable, I agree.  I would also buy from a
dealer to whom I can return the drive at no cost, should it not work with the
Falcon driver.


Tintin
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 149       Wed Oct 20, 1993
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 23:47 EDT

RE: the demo disc of graphics bundled with photo show - I have been looking
for the Kodak demo disk without success. I wish you did bundle it with the
software.  As to how much I would pay, well I hate to go over $100 on any
software package. Screenblaster just squeeked by under the wire.

       (:{ Grouch.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 150       Thu Oct 21, 1993
GREG                         at 00:35 EDT

R.NELSON48:

What true-color resolution do you run Screen Blaster in?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 151       Thu Oct 21, 1993
GREG                         at 00:36 EDT

Our new Photo Show Christmas demo is now available for download in the
libraries here as file #30444, XMASDEMO.ZIP.

The Christmas demo requires a Falcon computer with at least 2 meg of free
memory. It consists of a series of Falcon true-color graphics and background
digital sound.

Be the first to have your TV decorated this year!

The files may be freely distributed without restriction and included in user
group or PD libraries.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 152       Thu Oct 21, 1993
R.SNYDER6 [Roger S.]         at 06:02 EDT

     The catalog I just received had the NEC 3Xp, 3Xe, and 3Xi. The 3Xp is a
portable and they sell seperate interfaces for it for IBM and MAC. The 3Xe is
a fancier and quicker version, and the 3Xi is the internal (IBM) model. The
same interfaces are sold for them (NEC 16-bit CD-ROM interface card & cables,
MediaVision 16 bit MPC kit with audio board and CD-ROM SCSI interface, and a
MAC interface for $35 that must be just a cable). I do notice that the 3Xe and
3Xi bundles include a interface (with a lot of CDs) but the 3Xp does not.

     I believe someone posted rather complete information on these drives a
little while back.

--Roger
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 153       Thu Oct 21, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 18:41 EDT

Greg,

  Does a CD-ROM driver come with photo show? If so do you write it into your
assign.sys file as a certain device number?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 154       Thu Oct 21, 1993
GREG                         at 23:31 EDT

O-ZONE:

All you need to do to install a supported CD rom drive with the XFS driver
included with Photo Show is to copy the XFS driver to your MultiTOS folder and
rename it according the instructions in your manual.

That's all there is to it, no muss, no fuss. With the right drive and cable an
installation takes about two minutes.

No need to do anything else. It can't get no easier.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 155       Sat Oct 23, 1993
JKUEHN [John]                at 13:04 EDT

Greg,

 What PCD screen size and Falcon rezolution are you accessing in 20 seconds?

  And, by accessing, do you mean only the reading of the PCD data, or is that
the time from selecting the picture, through CD read, and display? (On the
Falcon?)

 As far as supplying the PCD sampler. It seems that, since the normal turn
aroung time for film to PCD is only three days through Kodalux, the point
seems moot. I would tend to believe that unless someone already had photo
source materiel already waiting 'in the wings' I doubt that anyone would be
considering purchasing Photo Show. An interesting side note. The cost for
reducing the three day film-PCD turnaround to two days is $50 and for next day
it's $100. Kodak is definately in the 'buisness'. end of this all.

 Current pricing for transfer of pre-developed slides or negatives to PCD is
       10-24 images 1.79 per image
       25-49        1.69
       50-74        1.59
       75 or more   1.49

minimum order (10) 17.90

developing and converting to PCD at the same time is somewhat cheaper

single roll transfer (Includes $.74 per image transfer plus processing and
mounting charges)

 24 exposure  23.60
 36 exposure  34.30

Multiple roll transfers -(Includes $.58 per image transfer plus processing and
mounting charges)

 24 exposure   19.90
 36 exposure   28.76

I just did an 88 slide to PCD transfer and the cost was $131.12.

 To add images (append) to an existing PCD there is a $2.00 or $3.00 depending
on which price schedule you look at.

 Of course there are price schedules for PCD disk duplication, and printing of
prints from the film.

 They have a slide/negative organizer kit called the "Photo CD Custom Album
Kit" for $5.00 for 'large' individual transfer orders of 25 or more pre-
processed negative strips or slides. This includes Acetate negative and slide
holders, paper negative sleeves, peel off number sheet for sequencing, a limit
of liability statement, and a $5.00 off Imaging Kit rebate coupon. Using the
rebate coupon makes the kit itself free.

 I am not currently an owner of your Photo Show...Yet.

 But I do have a couple of questions.

 Given appropriate CR-ROM drivers:

 Will Photo show run on a non-Falcon ST?

 Can Photo Show be used without Multitos (again excluding the metados driver
problem)

 And finally, what resolutions does Photo Show support?

 At one time I was lead to believe that there was an information flyer about
Photo show. I wonder if I could get a copy at:

                        John Kuehn
                        14303 Merton Ct.
                        Rockville, Md. 20853
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 156       Sat Oct 23, 1993
GREG                         at 16:34 EDT

JKUEHN:

To answer your questions:

The 20 second time is the total time for reading and viewing a PCD image on
the Falcon in true-color mode with version 2.02 of the program.

Photo Show will run on the Falcon with or without MultiTOS. You will need
MultiTOS to use the XFS driver for CD rom included with Photo Show.

Photo Show views images in the Falcon's true-color overscan mode on a RGB, TV,
or VGA monitor. It can do file conversions of up to 3072 by 2048 on any Atari
machine. Files can get quite large at this size. A 3072 by 2048 color EPS file
is over 36 meg in size. A TIF is over 16 meg. Not very practical for everyday
use. No viewing facilities are provided for machines other than the Falcon.

PCD images can be converted to FTC format. This is a true 16 bit color format.
Once converted, scripts can be written that read the images and sounds
directly from a hard disk. Access times for FTC format are under 1 second on
the Falcon.

The XMASDEMO.ZIP now in the libraries here has a version of Photo Show
included that will do everything but read a PCD file from disc. All FTC, AVR,
and scripting functions are fully enabled. It is FALCON ONLY.

Photo Show maintains aspect ratio on all three monitor types. Your images do
not appear elongated or squashed no matter what monitor you are using.

Photo Show also uses ALL 16 bits of the Falcon's true-color mode. I've found
that some other viewers only make use of 15 bits of color.

I'll get a flyer in the mail to you.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 157       Sun Oct 24, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 07:42 EDT

Greg,

        Could I get a flyer for our club, please ?

 Take Care,
 Lee Benjamin
 Middle Georgia Atari User's Group (MGAUG) Newsletter Editor
 3549 McKenzie Drive
 Macon, GA 31204

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 158       Sun Oct 24, 1993
SAM-RAPP [<<Sam>>]           at 21:32 EDT

A quick check at the local SAM's Warehouse shows that they do Photo CD
transfers of existing slides/negs for about $80 per 100.  This is A LOT
cheaper than all the other prices I have seen elsewhere....


===========> Sam

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 159       Sun Oct 24, 1993
GREG                         at 23:20 EDT

SAM-RAPP:

Sam's and Walmart both offer Photo CD processing through Kodalux. We have had
a couple of users make use of the service and they were satisfied with the
results.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 160       Mon Oct 25, 1993
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 08:39 EDT

Greg:

Is Walmart a nationwide chain? If so, who owns them?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 161       Mon Oct 25, 1993
AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!]       at 09:35 EDT

Darlah,

WalMart is very nearly nationwide here in the US. It was founded and owned by
Sam Walton, who has passed on. I believe it is owned by his heirs now. (Sam
was at one time, the wealthiest person in the United States.)

Sam's Club (it goes by variations on the name) is another retail chain started
by Mr. Walton and I presume is still tied close to WalMart.

--Travis
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 162       Mon Oct 25, 1993
DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs]         at 11:04 EDT

 We actually have a Walmart right here in central IL!
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 163       Tue Oct 26, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 03:23 EDT

Darlah,

What Travis said. Walmart is the #1 chain in the U.S. now. We have TWO. Gosh!

Al

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 164       Tue Oct 26, 1993
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 08:26 EDT

They have surpassed K-Mart? Quite impressive. Now we need to get back to Kodak
CD but do they also own Sam the Record Man stores too?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 165       Tue Oct 26, 1993
GENIELAMP.ST [John G]        at 18:03 EDT

Dot,

 That's right next to the SAM's in Champaign, right?  It's a 'must do'
 trip when we journy out to Pesotum on Thanksgiving (well, that and
 Jummer's Castle)!

 John


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 166       Tue Oct 26, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 21:40 EDT

  I just got the November issue of COMPUTER SHOPPER and there are two ads for
the NEC multispins. One from COMPUTABILITY and one from USA FLEX. Both sell
the 3Xp (available in Granite Gray to match the Falcon) for $429.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 167       Tue Oct 26, 1993
GREG                         at 22:00 EDT

O-ZONE:

As soon as we see the 3Xp in action, we will post the results of our testing
on it. Looks like you really turned into a 3Xp fan.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 168       Wed Oct 27, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 07:46 EDT

Darlah,

Yes, they surpassed K mart (that's the actual corporate spelling style -
really odd) and Sears. And no, Sam the Record Man isn't owned by the same
folks.

Al

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 169       Wed Oct 27, 1993
E.WINDELL [GENE]             at 10:24 EDT

GREG,

I recently acquired the Philips CD-I software catalog, and found it contained
the following entries:

PHOTO CD:  HOW TO PHOTOGRAPH NATURE A simple point and shoot camera and the
useful tips in this disc are all you need to take great photographs.  Learn
how to shoot flowers, close-ups, animals, and landscapes from photographers
Ralph Clevenger and Charles Campbell.  As you view 120 of their wonderful
pictures, you'll feel as if they're by your side. Cat.No.310690224-2   Order
No. PP024 GA   $24.95

PHOTO CD:  A NATIONAL PARKS TOUR Take a visual hike through the trails of
three national treasures: the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, and Yellowstone.
Journey through each park with an informative narration describing its natural
wonders, or take a musical tour heightened by an evocative DeBussy score.
This disc features over 120 breathtaking Photo CD images. Cat. No. 310690225-2
Order No. PP0225   $24.98

PHOTO CD:  THE FLOWERS OF ROBERT MAPPLETHORPE Robert Mapplethorpe's images of
flowers stand among the finest floral paintings and photographs in modern art.
Take an inspiring Photo CD tour at your own pace, enjoying over 60 images,
each paired with chamber music selection which captures its unique mood.
Commentary by Mapplethorpe  expert Robert Sobieszek. Cat. No. 310690223-2
Order No. PP0223 GA   $29.98


Coming Attractions '93

BABY ALBUM AND VACATION ALBUM (PHOTO CD) The CD-I Baby Album and CD-I Vacation
Album allow you to create your personal Photo CD albums.  Place your favorite
photos in customized picture frames and backgrounds, and choose captions and
music to make your album one-of-a-kind.

Prices and title availability subject to change.  Call 1-800-824-2567 for CD-I
title information.

Greg, you've probably anticipated my question.  How well can your Photo Show
program play these discs?  The Baby Album thingy sounds to me like PCD
Portfolio.  Do you have anything in the works to handle the portfolio playback
features?

BTW, I'm amazed at the prices of these discs.  One might expect to pay that
much for the blank media.

Gene
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 170       Wed Oct 27, 1993
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 14:00 EDT

Al:

Amazing. I visited a Walmart recently in Leesburg, Va. It was open at 7 am. It
had everything from suits, to appliances and everything inbetween. I liked it
better than K-Mart. I still haven't truly figured out why.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 171       Wed Oct 27, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 19:42 EDT

GREG,

  It has just the right features at a good price. Recently my Sony CD player
STB so I'm in need of a portable CD player with its own transport controls.
The 3Xp is a dream come true... I hope!
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 172       Wed Oct 27, 1993
GREG                         at 19:43 EDT

GENE:

Most likely, the actual programs on the disc are CD-I programs. It is also
likely that the data is stored in standard PCD format. If it is, the discs
would be useable on the Falcon.

The Corel image discs are viewable with Photo Show and the Falcon.

Kodak has not yet released its Portfolio format. The Portfolio format will
allow applications cross-platform access.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 173       Wed Oct 27, 1993
GREG                         at 19:46 EDT

O-ZONE:

NEC states the same drivers that work with the NEC-38 will work with their 3X
series of drives. They will be sending me more information on the drives.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 174       Wed Oct 27, 1993
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 22:14 EDT

Greg,

Call me 3Xp fan #2 :-)  I enquired today at my dealer.  They don't have
canadian pricing yet.

I've seen your demo Photo Show.  I am very interested in it.  I could use both
the slide show and conversion utilities.  Do you know how much memory takes a
PCD at 1536x1024, and how much it can be compressed to, in a different format?

Gene,

A blank CD costs $9.99 canadian.


Tintin


 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 175       Wed Oct 27, 1993
DMJ [dmj]                    at 23:25 EDT

A 1536x1024 image, 24-bit, requires only 4.5M.  Depending on what format you
store it in on disk, it might take 500K or it might take 9M.  Which format you
use depends on your needs.

     -dmj

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 176       Wed Oct 27, 1993
GREG                         at 23:56 EDT

C.LABELLE:

If your near Toronto, Replay Entertainment will have a Photo CD setup at their
special show this weekend.

They are at the Mall on the Grange, 71 McCaul Street, Toronto.

Call (416) 598-1992 for more info on the show.

The convert module with Photo Show will make a 3048 by 2072 24 bit true color
image. This is what is known as a BIG file.

The veiwing facilities of Photo Show make use of the Falcon's true color mode
and create files under 190 K in FTC format.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 181       Thu Oct 28, 1993
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 22:19 EDT

dmj,

My specific need at the moment is to take a PhotoCD picture to a service
bureau to have it printed for a calendar.  The printed size should be around
12" X 11".  The leading service bureau in my city do not support PhotoCD CD-
ROM, so they require a diskette or Syquest. Since I don't have a removable
device, is there a way to fit such a picture on HD diskettes, and what format
is best?


Greg,

Thanks.  Toronto is a 4 hours drive from Ottawa.  By PhotoCD display, do you
mean with Falcon?


Tintin

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 182       Thu Oct 28, 1993
GREG                         at 23:19 EDT

C.LABELLE:

The Syquest cartridge with a TIF true color image in 24 bits may be the best
way to go for printing.

Nathan, what do you suggest?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 183       Fri Oct 29, 1993
GREG                         at 01:05 EDT

I just patched DMJ's SPIN_DRY module into Photo Show and made what I think is
the world's first Photo CD ready spinning screen saver.

It's a really great effect with true-color images on the Falcon using the
Falcon's built in overscan mode.

I'll be checking with Damien to see if he will do an "official" version for us
using FTC graphics.

SPIN_DRY runs on the Falcon in any mode and any monitor type with or without
MultiTOS.
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 184       Fri Oct 29, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:13 EDT

Greg,

        Is this a Spin_Dry routine or the EOS module ?  Interesting that it's
MultiTOS compatible since Warp 9 isn't.  I guess the screen saver stuff is
independent of the screen accellerator.  Neat!

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 185       Fri Oct 29, 1993
M.DRYSDALE [Drys]            at 06:51 EDT

NEC has also announced a quadruple speed drive, cleverly called the 4x.
Availible early '94 $995.

Mike, GenTech and POWER Computers
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 186       Fri Oct 29, 1993
POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC]      at 13:15 EDT

We can handle the Photo CD picture, Tintin, by importing it into Calamus and
outputting it at high resolution. You could send it to us via modem if you'd
like. How large is the file? Do you have Calamus perchance? If so, just create
the CDK you want and we'll take it form there. If not, perhaps you can fax us
the layout you had in mind?

Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 187       Fri Oct 29, 1993
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 18:35 EDT

Greg,

Thanks.  I wonder if it is possible to zip a TIFF? then break it up to several
floppies?


Nathan,

No, I don't have Calamus but PageStream instead.  I already made the layout
for the calendar half, and saved it in Postscript.  You see, it's going to be
one of those calendar that unfolds.  The top sheet is a picture only, and the
bottom sheet is the month.  So there will be 13 individual pictures that will
be full-page.  These are causing me problems because of their size.

I only have 4MB and no Syquest.  I know I should upgrade, but DTP is a side
business for me, and until I have more sales,  I can't afford the 14MB+Syquest
just for this job.

So I don't need to bring the Photo CD in DTP.  I just need a way to save it in
an appropriate format and bring it to a service bureau.  I don't know the cost
of sending those to you through high-speed modem, I'm sure they will be quite
sizeable in TIF format.


Tintin
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 188       Fri Oct 29, 1993
DMJ [dmj]                    at 20:06 EDT

Tintin:

You can ZIP a TIFF, but your mileage may vary.  TIFFs can use LZW compression,
similar to what's in ZIP (and ARC and LHarc), so you may not get much out of
it.

If you take a Photo CD image at 3072x2048 and save it in TIFF format, but
don't compress it, it will be around 18M.  Compressed, it may be between 5M
and 10M.  As a Photo CD file, it will probably be between 3M and 6M.

As far as I know, ST Zip does not handle ZIP files spanned across disks.
PKZip for the PC does.

     -dmj

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 189       Fri Oct 29, 1993
GREG                         at 22:56 EDT

L.W.BENJAMIN:

I took the SPIN_DRY program and made a call to it after flipping to true-color
overscan, and loading a Photo CD image from disc. Very nice effect. Flipped
back to the old resolution when I was done.

SPIN_DRY runs as a program under MultiTOS because DMJ followed the rules for
updating or stealing screens under MultiTOS.

We will have a VIEW_PCD module for View II in the very near future. In fact
I've been having a great time clicking and viewing PCD files tonight. It will
show a PCD on a Falcon running in any resolution and color depth with anything
except a SM124 monochrome monitor. It also will support viewing FTC images
too.

The images are displayed using all 16 bits of color and maintaining aspect
ratios on all three monitor types (RGB, VGA, TV).

C.LABELLE:

There is a file splitter available in the libraries here. Can anyone tell me
the file number and name?

It's All Relative
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 190       Sat Oct 30, 1993
DMJ [dmj]                    at 00:15 EDT

Greg:

One thing to keep in mind is that while Spin Dry is running, multitasking in
MTOS is shut off.  I didn't do this deliberately, but it is rather a side-
effect of the Spin Dry routine running in supervisor mode.

     -dmj

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 191       Sat Oct 30, 1993
POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC]      at 09:24 EDT

Tiff would be your appropriate format then unless your service bureau could
take Kodak Photo CD files from you off a CD? In that case, just get the
pictures put on CD. If you are speaking of full size 300 dpi color images, the
files are definitely going to be LARGE! ;-)

Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing
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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 192       Sat Oct 30, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 09:34 EDT

Greg,

        Great minds think alike.  I've used VIEW II to look at several
pictures and let SPIN_DRY play with them.  Neat effects, especially if there
is a dither pattern, the spin can cause the pattern to appear to change as it
rotates.

        The PCD module for VIEW II sounds great!  If they're still selling
Falcons when I can afford one. <g>

Damien,

        Thanks for the info about MTOS and Spin Dry.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 193       Sat Oct 30, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 10:22 EDT

Tintin,

Any file, of any kind, can be broken up and put back together again. Theer are
a few utilities in the libraries to do that.

Al

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 194       Sat Oct 30, 1993
T.ZENTHOEFE1 [Tom Z.]        at 13:28 EDT

Also K-Mart offers Photo CD processing through Kodalux.

 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 197       Sun Oct 31, 1993
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 08:13 EST

Darlah,

        Yes, Sam's Club is similar to Price Club or PACE, etc.  They all
probably offer film developing and Photo CD processing via Kodalux.  <having
paid tribute to the Topic Kops, Koloth relaxes.>

 -KOLOTH

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Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 198       Sun Oct 31, 1993
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 15:42 EST

I find support or knowledge of products in those type of stores at a low. I
can see taking film into developing but I think they are only the inbetween
person that handles it, don't you think?
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 199       Sun Oct 31, 1993
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 19:51 EST

dmj, Greg, Nathan, Al:

I'll call different service bureaux this week. There should be one that
accepts Photo CD or a broken TIFF file on diskettes.  Thanks a lot.


Tintin
 ------------
Category 7,  Topic 9
Message 204       Fri Nov 05, 1993
GREG                         at 02:39 EST

If your a registered owner of Photo Show, a VGA monitor, and ScreenBlaster,
leave me E-mail and we will E-mail back a test version of Photo Show for the
ScreenBlaster. It will be a small file of about 25K.

The interface isn't complete, but we need to test the actual screen output on
a variety of VGA monitors. It seems that the true-color modes of ScreenBlaster
use everything but a square pixel and we need to make sure aspect ratios are
correct before releasing the program.

ScreenBlaster does manage to get a sharper, although somewhat smaller, true-
color image on the screen than a stock Falcon 030 using a VGA monitor and
Photo Show.

E-mail to GREG

It's All Relative
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